母语 “死马当活马医”

• mistletoe

  26 Jan 11, 19:37

  è¯�题摘自“http://www.zaobao.com.sg/yl/yl110123_002.shtml”

   

  语言是在环境的渲染以å�Šå®¶äººçš„耳濡目染之下æ‰�æ¸�æ¸�渗入一个孩å­�的血脉里头。如今，越æ�¥è¶Šå¤šäººçš„家庭用语因为环境的关系，å�˜æˆ�了英语，æ¸�æ¸�对自己的“æ¯�语”感到生ç–�。这样的情况下，æ¯�语对他们æ�¥è¯´ä¾¿æ˜¯è¯´ä¸�上实用，更ä¸�用说亲切了。æ¯�语程度é�¢ä¸´æ¯�况愈下的å¨�èƒ�，爱护æ¯�语的民众们也å�ªèƒ½æŠ—议，å�¹æ�¯ï¼Œæ›´æ„Ÿæ‚²å‡‰ã€‚然而，这å�¯æ˜¯ç¡®ç¡®å®žå®žçš„情形。如今，教育部æ��倡“ä¹�学善用” 的改é�©ï¼ŒçœŸçš„。。。医得过æ�¥å�—？

• Fcukpap

  26 Jan 11, 20:01

   

  英语作为首语虽解决了��分歧，但也产生了社会，根�，以���代沟

  问题。。英语确实把我们推�了国际化，但也产生了无�挽回的巨大阶级矛盾。。�语也因

  此�排斥与淡忘的局�。。如果����语政策。。这会让�语更迅速�临死亡状�

   

  �谓悬崖勒马啊!

• mistletoe

  26 Jan 11, 20:13

  我�决�对�低�语程度。I mean, we have all learnt it the hard way. Why should the younger generation slacken down? �语对年轻一代�说显得较闷，其中的原因�能是因为�语背负�较大的文化包袱。如果学习�文仅仅是为了饮水��，寻根，那我觉得这太肤浅。我本身热爱�文，��是因为它包�了厚实的文化色彩以�有�高度的实用性。�文对我�说很亲切，说起�也很自在。虽然英语应该是主语，但是我觉得两者�应该被相并�比较，因为�有�的好。

  �说，中国崛起，学习�文有�大的好处。大家怎能在此刻排斥它？�

  悬崖勒马啊。。。活马��会��死马。

• BanguIzai

  27 Jan 11, 00:22

  這是報應。�語�噬了方言的地�，�在�倒�來被英語�噬。

  你���文�語是我們新加�大多數�人的�語？哈哈。那我們原本的方言是什麽？

• 韩飞官

  27 Jan 11, 00:51

  Originally posted by mistletoe:

  我�决�对�低�语程度。I mean, we have all learnt it the hard way. Why should the younger generation slacken down? �语对年轻一代�说显得较闷，其中的原因�能是因为�语背负�较大的文化包袱。如果学习�文仅仅是为了饮水��，寻根，那我觉得这太肤浅。我本身热爱�文，��是因为它包�了厚实的文化色彩以�有�高度的实用性。�文对我�说很亲切，说起�也很自在。虽然英语应该是主语，但是我觉得两者�应该被相并�比较，因为�有�的好。

  �说，中国崛起，学习�文有�大的好处。大家怎能在此刻排斥它？�

  悬崖勒马啊。。。活马��会��死马。

  �说，中国崛起，学习�文有�大的好处。大家怎能在此刻排斥它？�

  to many of them,they don don care china is raising or not. cos they don intend to move to china or have business with them. only those who have business with china then they will learn it hard. i like chinese too. singapore claim that they invest alot in chinese,thats bullshit. they could make some of the poster to chinese. everywhere i go is english.since school is teaching in english, outside they should make it become a chinese enviourment, then we will learn chinese from there.if not chinese can only during chinese lesson or interection.

• mistletoe

  27 Jan 11, 11:04

  @Bangulzai: 如果把这个问题看作是"invasion and succession" ， 那英语在以å‰�便是统治者/强者的语言 （莱佛士登录新加å�¡ï¼‰ï¼Œå…ˆæ˜¯å�žå™¬äº†é©¬æ�¥è¯­ï¼Œå�Žè¯­ï¼Œå�°åº¦è¯­ã€‚。等。å†�æ�¥ï¼Œç»Ÿæ²»é˜¶å±‚çš„æ›´æ�¢”å�žå™¬“了方言。。。我ä¸�å�¦è®¤ä¹Ÿè®¸æœ‰æœ�一日å�Žè¯­ä¹Ÿä¼šå’Œæ–¹è¨€ä¸€æ ·æƒ¨é�­çŽ°å®žç¤¾ä¼šçš„蹂èº�。。。关于到底什么是”æ¯�语“，我已ç»�ä¸�å†�执ç�€åˆ°åº•å“ªä¸ªè¯­è¨€æ˜¯æˆ‘们的”æ¯�语“，å��正学习å�Žæ–‡å·²ç»�å�˜æˆ�一ç§�选择。

  @韩飞官： yes, I do agree that the environment plays a huge part in the use of a language. To some, the language is nothing but a practical tool for communication purposes, and therefore the tendency to choose whatever that favor them in the current situation. However, also in the practical sense, many foreign investors ( esp from the western community) invest in Singapore partly due to the comparative advantage ( being bilingual) that Singapore possesses. 

• Pinknutri

  27 Jan 11, 15:54

  Japanese, Koreans, Hong KongersChinese (China), Taiwanese, French, Italians etc. all use their own language to communicate with each other at home, why Singaporeans are so special. Don't you all feel shameful when others call us banana (outside yellow, inside white)?

• mistletoe

  28 Jan 11, 09:48

  I think its more shameful when those who aren't yellow, can speak better mandarin than us (:

• BanguIzai

  28 Jan 11, 13:22

  Originally posted by mistletoe:

  I think its more shameful when those who aren't yellow, can speak better mandarin than us (:

  I also think its more shameful when those who aren't yellow (example those apunene), can speak better our dialect than us (:

• Clivebenss

  28 Jan 11, 13:26

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  I also think its more shameful when those who aren't yellow (example those apunene), can speak better our dialect than us (:

  so true.

  http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/420371

• BanguIzai

  28 Jan 11, 13:31

  Originally posted by mistletoe:

  @Bangulzai: 如果把这个问题看作是"invasion and succession" ， 那英语在以å‰�便是统治者/强者的语言 （莱佛士登录新加å�¡ï¼‰ï¼Œå…ˆæ˜¯å�žå™¬äº†é©¬æ�¥è¯­ï¼Œå�Žè¯­ï¼Œå�°åº¦è¯­ã€‚。等。å†�æ�¥ï¼Œç»Ÿæ²»é˜¶å±‚çš„æ›´æ�¢”å�žå™¬“了方言。。。我ä¸�å�¦è®¤ä¹Ÿè®¸æœ‰æœ�一日å�Žè¯­ä¹Ÿä¼šå’Œæ–¹è¨€ä¸€æ ·æƒ¨é�­çŽ°å®žç¤¾ä¼šçš„蹂èº�。。。关于到底什么是”æ¯�语“，我已ç»�ä¸�å†�执ç�€åˆ°åº•å“ªä¸ªè¯­è¨€æ˜¯æˆ‘们的”æ¯�语“，å��正学习å�Žæ–‡å·²ç»�å�˜æˆ�一ç§�选择。

  @韩飞官： yes, I do agree that the environment plays a huge part in the use of a language. To some, the language is nothing but a practical tool for communication purposes, and therefore the tendency to choose whatever that favor them in the current situation. However, also in the practical sense, many foreign investors ( esp from the western community) invest in Singapore partly due to the comparative advantage ( being bilingual) that Singapore possesses. 

  Invasion and succession, 我會用在當所強制的語言已經�功地�噬了��語言�算完全�噬。在新加�和１９９７年之�的香港，英語雖然都是統治者的語言，但是沒有�噬本來的語言，本來這些語言的使用者的語言能力還是沒有退化。例如，比方説在泰國，泰語的確�噬了當地�人的��方言了，當地�人的��方言�用能力已經退化了。

• BanguIzai

  28 Jan 11, 13:33

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  so true.

  http://sgforums.com/forums/3545/topics/420371

  Yesterday just heard one, at a community centre, he is a cleaner only, he was speaking Teochew effortlessly to his friends and some elderly there.

• Clivebenss

  28 Jan 11, 13:36

  Originally posted by BanguIzai:

  Yesterday just heard one, at a community centre, he is a cleaner only, he was speaking Teochew effortlessly to his friends and some elderly there.

  Once I was eating in a coffeeshop and this so standard Amoy Hokkien and I turned around to find this middle age Indian man talking with an elder.

• BanguIzai

  28 Jan 11, 13:41

  Originally posted by Clivebenss:

  Once I was eating in a coffeeshop and this so standard Amoy Hokkien and I turned around to find this middle age Indian man talking with an elder.

  wahaha, kudos

• mistletoe

  28 Jan 11, 13:57

  惭愧啊惭愧，I cannot differentiate between Teochew and Hokkien, thus i spout a rojak of dialects :x

• Clivebenss

  28 Jan 11, 14:16

  Originally posted by mistletoe:

  惭愧啊惭愧，I cannot differentiate between Teochew and Hokkien, thus i spout a rojak of dialects :x

  too far down the drain.

  

• BanguIzai

  29 Jan 11, 02:53

  Originally posted by mistletoe:

  惭愧啊惭愧，I cannot differentiate between Teochew and Hokkien, thus i spout a rojak of dialects :x

  The lingua franca Teochew based on Swatow-type pronunciation can be almost immediately differentiated from the lingua franca Hokkien based on Amoy-type pronunciation.

  Some tips that can be used to differentiate them immediately (based on surface phonology) even if you do not know how to speak either of them:

  • lingua franca Swatow Teochew has the vowel [ɯ] whereas lingua franca Amoy Hokkien does not have at all  (eg. "æ±�" Sw.Teo. [lɯ] vs Am.Hok. [li]  or  "語" Sw.Teo. [gɯ] vs Am.Hok. [gu])
  • lingua franca Swatow Teochew has the nasalised vowel [~É›~] whereas lingua franca Amoy Hokkien does not have at all  (eg. "é�’" Sw. Teo. [tsÊ»~É›~] vs Am.Hok. [tsÊ»~i~]  or  "ç½µ" Sw.Teo. [m~É›~] vs Am.Hok. [m~a~])
  • lingua franca Swatow Teochew does not have the nasal final [n] at all whereas lingua franca Amoy Hokkien has  (eg. "牽" Sw. Teo. [kÊ»aÅ‹] vs Am. Hok. [kÊ»an])
  • lingua franca Swatow Teochew does not have the stop final [t] at all whereas lingua franca Amoy Hokkien has  (eg. "踢" Sw. Teo. [tÊ»ak] vs Am. Hok. [tÊ»at])

  It is the non-lingua franca type of Teochew such as Haihong Teochew or Hoong'Au Teochew that has blurred the line with non-lingua franca type of Hokkien such as ChiangChiu Hokkien. In fact lingua franca Swatow Teochew is also very similar in its surface phonology to ChiangChiu Hokkien compared to Amoy Hokkien. Surprisingly lingua franca Swatow Teochew is not very similar in its surface phonology with ChuanChew-type Hokkien but is in fact similar in their deeper-level phonology which reveals their close connection.

  Forummer amhoanna has mentioned about this before too:
  (post) http://www.sgforums.com/forums/2029/topics/355579?page=14#post_10009766