wad is karma ?
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Originally posted by Kenashi:
if so, than i can go commit evil? don't tink so.
u guys like to think that karma = fate
fate = act of god
so karma = act of god
for info:
Beliefs that are contrary to the law of kamma
There are three philosophies which are considered by Buddhism to be wrong view and which must be carefully distinguished from the teaching of kamma:
1. Pubbekatahetuvada: The belief that all happiness and suffering arise from previous kamma (Past-action determinism).
2. Issaranimmanahetuvada: The belief that all happiness and suffering are caused by the directives of a Supreme Being (Theistic determinism).
3. Ahetu-apaccayavada: The belief that all happiness and suffering are random, having no cause (Indeterminism or Accidentalism).
"Bhikkhus, of those three groups of ascetics and Brahmins, I approach the second group ... and say to them, 'If that is so, then you have killed living beings because of the directives of a Supreme Being ... stolen the goods of others ... engaged in sexual misconduct ... uttered false speech ... have held wrong view because of the directives of a Supreme Being.'
"Bhikkhus, adhering to the will of a Supreme Being as the essence, there are neither motivation nor effort with what should be done and what should not be done ...
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/kamma6.htm
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Hi everyone,
Please do not think that karma is fate or predestination. You as an individual are free to choose every action you make, you have the free will to act accordingly. Thus, you are free to choose your action, but you cannot escape consequences of the choices you've made. You cannot escape karma, but you can understand how it works and thus escaping samsara. -
KARMA - nobody but you yourself is in control of your fate
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=199365 -
You reap what you sow.
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Absolutely.
The law of a cause - YIN (and contributing conditions, YUAN) and effect - GUO.
Originally posted by Passions:You reap what you sow. -
Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
You got to be joking... How can you change something that happened in the past? Can you go back in time or predict what will happen in the future?
[b]KARMA - nobody but you yourself is in control of your fate
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=199365[/b] -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
think u misunderstood, it only mean a person reap what the person had sowed in the past..so to know the future effect, u can take a look at the present action.
You got to be joking... How can you change something that happened in the past? Can you go back in time or predict what will happen in the future?[/b]
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Then what about the actions you believe that you are doing right presently but turn out to be wrong in the future?Originally posted by sinweiy:think u misunderstood, it only mean a person reap what the person had sowed in the past..so to know the future effect, u can take a look at the present action.
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It has alot to do with wisdom and observation. But if it is not within your control then I do not think you will have any karma for causing the "wrong".Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Then what about the actions you believe that you are doing right presently but turn out to be wrong in the future?
--------Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Awareness has intrinsic wisdom that discerns what is and sees what leads to what.
- Toni Packer
From "excuse me, are you a Bodhisattva?", I posted:
That's greatOriginally posted by paperflower:i haven't have the ability to view my past chapters. which i believe can be trained or it will come naturally when the time is ripe and fruitful.
what i could see is the present and, the future presentness of things if when the present setting and conditions are in tune with what is going to happen.
again, this ain't any psychic ability at all. it is hard to explain.
but interestingly, sometimes what i say will happen, if i say it without cause or intention. its hard to explain. perhaps this is what the mind is. the power of the mind. not mine..... the mind of you and me.
so treasure it and make full use of it on the ethical side.
again, i still will emphasize - ethical.
perhaps there were "something" in the past. well, what's past is gone. the current, now present is more relevant and significant.
this i know....... -
what IS, will become. This is not psychic ability, it is called wisdom.
From Awakening The Sleeping Mind (one of the first English books written by my master that is translated and published recently), Ven. Master Shen Kai (note: the 'pure awareness' mentioned here refers more to 'awakening' than 'buddha essence'):
4. What is the wisdom of the Buddha? How can we unfold our Buddha-wisdom?
In order for our Buddha-wisdom to unfold, we need pure awareness; to awaken ourselves, and also to awaken others. One is Buddha when one's pure awareness, enlightenment and cultivation of the Bodhisattva Way have reached a rounded perfection. But pure awareness is no simple matter. There is advanced awareness (i.e knowing the consequence before the event), retrospective awareness (i.e knowing the consequence after the event) and unawareness (i.e being ignorant of the event and the consequence). Advanced awareness refers to knowing ahead of time, before the action is committed, whether suffering or happiness will result.
Thus, the saying goes: "Bodhisattvas are wary of causes, sentient beings are wary of consequences". For any situation, a Bodhisattva knows whether the cause is a virtuous or a wicked one. Knowing the cause, he makes the necessary ammendments within this cause itself. He does not wait until he is suffering the bitter consequences and is full of complaints, and only then make the changes. That would be too late.
Sentient beings are wary of the consequences rather than the causes. Before an incident, some people like to behave like heroes and taunt others, "Who do you think you are? You think you're great? What do you want?!" Then, they pull out knives and murder people, or beat them up, or quarrel with people... until the law catches up with them and throws them into prison. Oh! They will wail their laments then! Why didn't you know better right from the start? If you had known in advance, and you didn't behave as such, then wouldn't everything be fine? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
ignorance/folly is also consider a negative/root karma that lead to any actions be it right or wrong. Every volitional action (except that of a Buddha or of an Arahant) is called Karma. there's also netual action.
Then what about the actions you believe that you are doing right presently but turn out to be wrong in the future?Neutral Actions
however, i heard from Ven Hai Tao, that unintentional action also have unintentional effect. there was this monk who while preaching, accidentally kill an insect. the insect later was reborn as a wild boar which had an itch teeth. so it went to scratch on a huge rock. which fell from the cliff and killed the monk below. the wild boar was also unintentional.
The law of karma does not apply to actions such as walking, sitting or sleeping. Such actions do not produce effects apart from the actions themselves. Similarly, accidentally killing an insect is considered a neutral action because it is unintentional.
There was once a blind monk who would , while walking about, accidentally step on ants, thereby killing them. when his fellow monks noticed this, they report it to the Buddha who pointed out that as the blind monk's killing of the ants was unintentional, it was neither wholesome nor unwholesome karma and no corresponding effect would arise.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Don't tell me:Taking no action is an action.
That's great This is not psychic ability, it is called wisdom.
From Awakening The Sleeping Mind (one of the first English books written by my master that is translated and published recently), Ven. Master Shen Kai (note: the 'pure awareness' mentioned here refers more to 'awakening' than 'buddha essence'):
[b]4. What is the wisdom of the Buddha? How can we unfold our Buddha-wisdom?
In order for our Buddha-wisdom to unfold, we need pure awareness; to awaken ourselves, and also to awaken others. One is Buddha when one's pure awareness, enlightenment and cultivation of the Bodhisattva Way have reached a rounded perfection. But pure awareness is no simple matter. There is advanced awareness (i.e knowing the consequence before the event), retrospective awareness (i.e knowing the consequence after the event) and unawareness (i.e being ignorant of the event and the consequence). Advanced awareness refers to knowing ahead of time, before the action is committed, whether suffering or happiness will result.
Thus, the saying goes: "Bodhisattvas are wary of causes, sentient beings are wary of consequences". For any situation, a Bodhisattva knows whether the cause is a virtuous or a wicked one. Knowing the cause, he makes the necessary ammendments within this cause itself. He does not wait until he is suffering the bitter consequences and is full of complaints, and only then make the changes. That would be too late.
Sentient beings are wary of the consequences rather than the causes. Before an incident, some people like to behave like heroes and taunt others, "Who do you think you are? You think you're great? What do you want?!" Then, they pull out knives and murder people, or beat them up, or quarrel with people... until the law catches up with them and throws them into prison. Oh! They will wail their laments then! Why didn't you know better right from the start? If you had known in advance, and you didn't behave as such, then wouldn't everything be fine?[/b] -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
i think if it causes a chain reaction, that hurt oneself or others, it's karma.
Don't tell me:Taking "no action" is an action.
Definition of Karma
Karma is intentional action, that is, a deed done deliberately through body, speech or mind. Karma means good and bad volition (kusala Akusala Centana). Every volitional action (except that of a Buddha or of an Arahant) is called Karma. The Buddha's and Arahants do not accumulate fresh Karma as they have destroy all their passions.
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/5215/karma.html
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Your thought of not taking action while you should be, is itself an evil thought. For example if you have the very ability to save someone right in front of you, but you just let him die, that is not no action, that is evil thinking. Karma got Mind, Speech, Action karma, although karma means "Action", it has 3 parts.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Don't tell me:Taking no action is an action. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
just to clarify: AEN uses the word "Action", while i uses the word "bodily".
Karma got Mind, Speech, Action karma, although karma means "Action", it has 3 parts.
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For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Hence, taking no action should not be an action and thus should not be evil. Action, I believe should be redefined into Mental, Oral and Physical...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Your thought of not taking action while you should be, is itself an evil thought. For example if you have the very ability to save someone right in front of you, but you just let him die, that is not no action, that is evil thinking. Karma got Mind, Speech, Action karma, although karma means "Action", it has 3 parts. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
yes, can put it as 'Mental, Oral and Physical'.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Hence, taking no action should not be an action and thus should not be evil. Action, I believe should be redefined into Mental, Oral and Physical...
so if there's no action of even the mental, there's no reaction.
on an advance level, it's still wu ji (a form of nothingness/doing nothing like a rock), which is not our aim. it should be All 'shui yuan'(Let nature take it's course). thoughts can come, but don't dwell on the thoughts. ying wu shuo zhu, er shen qi xing.
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YupOriginally posted by sinweiy:yes, can put it as 'Mental, Oral and Physical'.
so if there's no action of even the mental, there's no reaction.
on an advance level, it's still wu ji (a form of nothingness/doing nothing like a rock), which is not our aim. it should be All 'shui yuan'(Let nature take it's course). thoughts can come, but don't dwell on the thoughts. ying wu shuo zhu, er shen qi xing.
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If you don't even dwell on your action and thoughts, then how do you know you have made a mistake?Originally posted by sinweiy:yes, can put it as 'Mental, Oral and Physical'.
so if there's no action of even the mental, there's no reaction.
on an advance level, it's still wu ji (a form of nothingness/doing nothing like a rock), which is not our aim. it should be All 'shui yuan'(Let nature take it's course). thoughts can come, but don't dwell on the thoughts. ying wu shuo zhu, er shen qi xing.
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To know whether one has made a mistake is discriminative wisdom. You do not have to keep dwelling on your action and thoughts to know what is right and wrong, I believe people have it naturally. Even if you need to plan and consider many things it is ok.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:If you don't even dwell on your action and thoughts, then how do you know you have made a mistake?
But to become attached to outcome of action and thoughts, and to cling unto thoughts without letting to, leading one thought to the next endlessly like a chain, is 'attachment' and 'ignorance'.
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By Thusness:
Hi LB,Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Just want to clarify this. Generally I understand the concept of living in the present moment, feeling current sensations and feelings, being aware of thoughts, etc. But there are a few examples that confuse me:
1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
3. If you enter the "flow state" (popular term in American psychology, meaning losing all sense of time because you are so absorbed in what you're doing) would that be bad in Buddhism because you lost track of time passing and therefore the present reality? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
thanks
LB
You may want to look more deeply into ‘non-action’, i.e., plan but not be attached to outcome. When engaging with conceptual models, just work within the laws and conditions of the model. This is analogous to our ‘buddha nature’ working day in and day out within the conditions of our five senses yet not limited by it.
Before stabilization of our experience of Presence, there will be confusion. No-self is a very distinct phase of our practices; without going through this phase, we will not be able to replace our conceptual mode of knowing with intuitiveness and directness. This is known as the ‘turning point’. From intuitive workings into spontaneity will take some time. -
But without such chains, you will still commit such mistakes again.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Hi LB,
You may want to look more deeply into ‘non-action’, i.e., plan but not be attached to outcome. When engaging with conceptual models, just work within the laws and conditions of the model. This is analogous to our ‘buddha nature’ working day in and day out within the conditions of our five senses yet not limited by it.
Before stabilization of our experience of Presence, there will be confusion. No-self is a very distinct phase of our practices; without going through this phase, we will not be able to replace our conceptual mode of knowing with intuitiveness and directness. This is known as the ‘turning point’. From intuitive workings into spontaneity will take some time. -
It is only a chain when you become caught up with the thoughts.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:But without such chains, you will still commit such mistakes again.
When we plan, we plan according to the conditions. When engaging with conceptual models, just work within the laws and conditions of the model. We are not caught up with it, the planning is spontaneous, self arising, there is no one planning, no one to be caught up in planning.
The difference with mad people is that they have an incessant voice in the head which they think is real, completely identified with it and completely caught up with it."The life of a sentient being is a long dream. Existence only appears to be real. When one finally awakens, or attains Buddhahood, existence is seen for what it is--a sequence of illusions. Until that time, people will remain obsessed by the body, mind, and external phenomena, not realizing that they are illusory. You will live in a dream, thinking that it is reality. . . .
"Sentient beings mistakenly view their moment-to-moment illusory existence as a continuous, connected lifetime. Because they are unaware that their life is unreal, they do not attempt to wake up."
--ChÂ’an Master Sheng-yen, Complete Enlightenment, pp. 108-109 -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
say u burn your hand, after that u learn to be more careful. no big deal.
If you don't even dwell on your action and thoughts, then how do you know you have made a mistake?
normally ppl do not know, unless, an enlightened person teach them or they discover by themself. therefore, after u have know that it's a mistake, u can gradually cease to do it anymore.
without suffering, there's also no enlightenment.
(ps: u use "you" rather than 'u', are u not from Spore?)
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i agreedOriginally posted by Passions:Hi everyone,
Please do not think that karma is fate or predestination. You as an individual are free to choose every action you make, you have the free will to act accordingly. Thus, you are free to choose your action, but you cannot escape consequences of the choices you've made. You cannot escape karma, but you can understand how it works and thus escaping samsara. -
mmm this remind me of something..Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Don't tell me:Taking no action is an action.
wat if u saw something bad and u can actually call the police to stop it or stop it yourself... but u didnt... there will be a consequence -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
if were to wonder if the 2 stories are contradicting.
There was once a blind monk who would , while walking about, accidentally step on ants, thereby killing them. when his fellow monks noticed this, they report it to the Buddha who pointed out that as the blind monk's killing of the ants was unintentional, it was neither wholesome nor unwholesome karma and no corresponding effect would arise.
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however, i heard from Ven Hai Tao, that unintentional action also have unintentional effect. there was this monk who while preaching, accidentally kill an insect. the insect later was reborn as a wild boar which had an itch teeth. so it went to scratch on a huge rock. which fell from the cliff and killed the monk below. the wild boar was also unintentional.
i think for the first story, maybe Buddha do not want the monk to worry too much, as there's not much he can do to unintentional 'Effect', except be more careful/mindful.
unintentional karma is quite like equivalent to Collective karma.
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